I’m differentiating between online “anarchists, socialists and communists” and the real deal. I had an anarchist on Lemmy the other day tell me that they don’t think class analysis is important.
Yeah, no, I heard you the first time. I just don’t get why you give a fuck. They’re not doing anything negative, so who fucking cares what the call themselves?
Arguing “I’m an anarchist” and following it with “anarchism doesn’t need class analysis” is harmful to anarchism in particular, and to the left in general. Would you also see no problems with a self-declared leftist saying “trans rights are irrelevant”?
Yes, I understand that you think that. I also don’t agree with you. I think you are gate keeping a term.
Like, if I want to dismantle hierarchical structures that oppress me and all that jazz, but I know jackshit about class because I don’t read or participate because I just gotta work my day job day in and day out, am I not a leftist? I don’t think the answer is no. Now, I wouldn’t trust a person like that to make good decisions in forwarding or explaining leftist ideas, but… They’re not the problem. I don’t even care if they call themselves a leftist because they’re not contributing the problems. Like… This feels like a fake problem.
To me, I don’t think it’s possible for everyone to be knowledgeable about the things they believe in. I think it’d be great if they were, but it’s not always a great starting point for everyone, and if a stoner bro wants to call them self a leftist, ain’t no skin off my back. Anyone that was going to use that guy as baggage against me was going to also use sex workers and unhoused people and gay people and trans people and furries and anyone else that’s seen as undesirable. I just don’t give a fuck, man.
Like, if I want to dismantle hierarchical structures that oppress me and all that jazz, but I know jackshit about class because I don’t read or participate because I just gotta work my day job day in and day out, am I not a leftist?
Well, if you’re openly what’s called “a baby leftist”, then yeah, I get it, nothing wrong with that, we all start somewhere, but at least there should be a drive to get informed. My comment was specifically towards people who use specific labels such as anarchist or communist without really knowing what they’re talking about.
Right. I think it’d be great if they have that drive. But some of them won’t. And I don’t see them as not a leftist just because they don’t. And I especially don’t see it as harmful to me if they identify as such. The label isn’t mine to dole out.
I think it is. To say that you need to perform some arbitrary action or have some arbitrary prerequisite to be a member of a belief structure is silly. I see it as simply being that you are a leftist if you have leftist ideals. Like, you can argue about the applicability of communist vs anarchist vs socialist, because those relate to organizational structures, but to say you can’t label yourself as a leftist for a reason that isn’t really related to being a leftist is just moral gatekeeeping.
Words mean things, if you don’t fit the definition for a political ideology or movement then you’re not in/a member of it in any meaningful way, also there’s a long and extremely well documented history of US intelligence agencies infilitrating leftists groups so gatekeeping is actually just 100% necessary and anyone who says otherwise is either a moron or a fed
Just gotta generate some more means to divide ourselves!
Yeah, idk, man, those guys that infiltrated leftist groups were fucking stupid and were easily picked out because they were morons that didn’t understand why people were leftist. But, sure, you gotta gatekeep to stop those idiots, lol.
Lmao. Are you gatekeeping being a leftist?
I’m differentiating between online “anarchists, socialists and communists” and the real deal. I had an anarchist on Lemmy the other day tell me that they don’t think class analysis is important.
Yeah, no, I heard you the first time. I just don’t get why you give a fuck. They’re not doing anything negative, so who fucking cares what the call themselves?
Arguing “I’m an anarchist” and following it with “anarchism doesn’t need class analysis” is harmful to anarchism in particular, and to the left in general. Would you also see no problems with a self-declared leftist saying “trans rights are irrelevant”?
Yes, I understand that you think that. I also don’t agree with you. I think you are gate keeping a term.
Like, if I want to dismantle hierarchical structures that oppress me and all that jazz, but I know jackshit about class because I don’t read or participate because I just gotta work my day job day in and day out, am I not a leftist? I don’t think the answer is no. Now, I wouldn’t trust a person like that to make good decisions in forwarding or explaining leftist ideas, but… They’re not the problem. I don’t even care if they call themselves a leftist because they’re not contributing the problems. Like… This feels like a fake problem.
To me, I don’t think it’s possible for everyone to be knowledgeable about the things they believe in. I think it’d be great if they were, but it’s not always a great starting point for everyone, and if a stoner bro wants to call them self a leftist, ain’t no skin off my back. Anyone that was going to use that guy as baggage against me was going to also use sex workers and unhoused people and gay people and trans people and furries and anyone else that’s seen as undesirable. I just don’t give a fuck, man.
Well, if you’re openly what’s called “a baby leftist”, then yeah, I get it, nothing wrong with that, we all start somewhere, but at least there should be a drive to get informed. My comment was specifically towards people who use specific labels such as anarchist or communist without really knowing what they’re talking about.
Right. I think it’d be great if they have that drive. But some of them won’t. And I don’t see them as not a leftist just because they don’t. And I especially don’t see it as harmful to me if they identify as such. The label isn’t mine to dole out.
You say that as if it’s a bad thing
I think it is. To say that you need to perform some arbitrary action or have some arbitrary prerequisite to be a member of a belief structure is silly. I see it as simply being that you are a leftist if you have leftist ideals. Like, you can argue about the applicability of communist vs anarchist vs socialist, because those relate to organizational structures, but to say you can’t label yourself as a leftist for a reason that isn’t really related to being a leftist is just moral gatekeeeping.
Words mean things, if you don’t fit the definition for a political ideology or movement then you’re not in/a member of it in any meaningful way, also there’s a long and extremely well documented history of US intelligence agencies infilitrating leftists groups so gatekeeping is actually just 100% necessary and anyone who says otherwise is either a moron or a fed
Just gotta generate some more means to divide ourselves!
Yeah, idk, man, those guys that infiltrated leftist groups were fucking stupid and were easily picked out because they were morons that didn’t understand why people were leftist. But, sure, you gotta gatekeep to stop those idiots, lol.