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The power that repels the vampire is supposedly god, which is supposedly stronger than the US Gov (citation needed) meaning no.
However a good question is what exactly is a home and does it need to be sanctified? Can a Vampire enter a graveyard blessed by a cardinal when a groundskeeper lives on the far side?
Being as that god is typically considered to be the Christian God, then the dogmatic principle of, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” should come into play, at least in the western world. Their invitation is from the true owner of the home, the state, which supersedes the current occupants authority as, “all nations are created by God”.
However there may be some concept of primacy of house and home that in God’s eyes turns out to be more important than the political societal contract we live under that has an exemption for protection from evil supernatural entities, as otherwise a long-lived vampire could simply manipulate the population to get themselves elected as a ruler and cause the citizens to lose one of their fundamental protections from the denizens of the night.
That being said, most law-abiding homeowners would probably permit the entry based on the existence of the warrant by default, so it’s likely a moot point.
Must be dumb friends. The answer is no.
A warrant isn’t permission from the owner, or anyone inside the house.
but it’s a cop so likely won’t be following the rules even for a vampire
Cops don’t follow rules because there’s no one enforcing them. Vampires can’t enter homes because god stops them from doing so. So even a cop vampire would need to follow this rule or be turned to ash for not being a Gentleman.
I know, I know. It’s a joke and all. I just felt the need to add context on why these rules exist and why their not just arbitrary laws that vampires can just chose to ignore.
yeah i just thought it would be funny to think cops would ignore even supernatural laws because they’re just that shitty
Tbh, that does sound kind of dope 😂
Lol, well you have a point there.
But what is ownership? Ownership is the society-recognized right to the exclusive use of property. But society establishes certain limitations on those rights, including requirements to allow the lawful access by law enforcement to the property.
You intrinsically give law enforcement permission to access property if they have a warrant. It’s just part of the bargain of land ownership.
I can see how this mere question can end friendships…
What if you’re renting? What if the house was appropriated? What if there’s a land dispute? What if the land was appropriated? What if it fall under imminent domain? What if it’s split ownership? What if there’s a dissociative personality involved?
There’s so much to be straight up dismissive as “they’re dumb friends”.
[In the US] A warrant is permission from the representative of a governmental entity that is ultimately in charge of the land and could legally take it from you, so if theydo take it from you, do you still own it? Even if you can’t get it back? By that logic does the US own any of the land, since it was first the land of a different peoples?
All of those things (Landlords, disputed owners, etc.) don’t apply if they aren’t in the house.
This is really that simple.
But how does it apply? Any 4 walls and a ceiling? Does a window count as being open to invitation? If the vampire knocks down a wall is it now outdoors and they’re free to go anywhere that was formerly “inside”
If I put a box I own in someone else’s house the vampire has access to can he not access my box while I’m in it? What about a casita style house inside a larger house, like a mother-in-law suite?
Can anyone inside invite them? Can they have a thrall of theirs force or trick their way inside and invite the vampire in?
Ability to seize isn’t the act of seizure nor by that definition is any land owned because most everything has been taken by force at some point.
Renting wouldn’t change anything unless they got permission from the owner.
Actually the answer is yes, you mention ownership as a key thing for your logic. Hence ownership is transferred to owners, managers of managers, bosses of bosses, etc. Hence yes they would be allowed.
You however misunderstand the implications of vampires. Vampires are essentially a criticism of the old who have lived to long, grown withered and cold. Husks of man with no life or soul left to gleam joy.
However they still don the mask of man and must weave within society. They are bound to be polite as they are not to arouse alarm, the alarm will be the corpse they leave behind. The youth they have sapped and the decrepit infection he has implanted.
Come on man, seems like an obvious metaphor for old men being polite and exploiting young women for the sake of ‘new blood’ or allusions to virginity. The yes is not about ownership, it is about concent.
If the owner isn’t in the house, then they don’t have any right to give permission.
Vampires don’t care about mortal laws.
So the who owns it? If you own a house, you are still owned by the government that leases you that land at tax deductions. Or would the bloodidst own it?
Legally? Yes. Physically? No.
A vampire police officer would have to abide by both rules. They would need a warrant and an invite. A warrant is legal permission, but not an invite.
No they wouldn’t tbh
Needs reasoning
Not familiar with warrant law but doesnt inviting a police officer into your home negate the need for a warrant as you have given the permission?
Yes, but the debate is the other way around: is a warrant an invitation?
Y’all this one is simple.
Legally, yes.
Physically (for supernatural reasons), no.
This is the answer I choose to accept.
“Can I enter your home to arrest you?”
“I don’t know officer squints eyes …can you?”
"I am not resisting arrest. I am merely standing inside my home to be arrested. Why would I step outside to be arrested?
What if they’re serving an eviction notice and it’s no longer your home?
Then you don’t have the authority to grant them entrance
You technically aren’t evicted until you’re served the notice
Haha good luck with that vampire man
My wife asked me this just this week! I said that it would depend on how far the vampire is ‘removed’ from vampires “tradition”. As in, if they were a more recent conversion, maybe more archaic methods like legalistic language wouldn’t be enough and a vampire cop could enter with just a warrant. But I think an older vampire-cop who would be more bound by whatever lore suits the trespassing curse/stigma, would still be unable to enter your home without your express permission. Its about domain, not so much ownership.
No a vampire requires permission from some1 inside the house it could be any1 in the house not just the owner. A warrent give legal permission to enter but its from outside the house thus making it useless for a vampire to enter with alone.
[citation needed]
Can confirm; am vampire
Can also confirm, killed vampire last week. Tree.
Can confirm, no warrent carrying vampires have gotten into my house without permission from someone inside.
So what I’m gathering here is that you do indeed have vampires inside
Nope, absolutely no vampires here, definitely none at all, no siree. No vmpires in this house.
/blinks franticly at the camera
…be… sure… to… drink… your… ov-
You son of a bitch
So if I’m walking towards my house after giving one a ride I can’t tell her to come on in?
So you need a non-vampire judge to enter the house and produce the warrant from inside, got it!
If I’m outside the house and pulling weeds and a vampire walks up and I told them to come on in and motion them in the house first can they go in?
Why would they need to, are you anemic and lacking in blood? 🧛♂️
Vampires can steal your valuables too! You don’t know!
If the owner of a house dies, can’t the vampire enter then, bc it’s no longer a “home” or whatever?
What is a pwrson? What if the vampire git a comouter program to intrude every system it could and make every speaker it got access to invite them in?
What if the vampire limitation extends to the digital world? What if a vampire can’t be a hacker because they need permission from the admin on the target system?
Okay, so you add human in the loop. Pay some poor fucker in india to press one button.
but jesus is everywhere
Oh god, I blame Nosferatu for most of the terrible vampire tropes.
This is important.
Kicks down the door with his non-vampire partner who enters first … non-vampire steps inside the building and tells his vampire friend to come in
I see you too have played in a World of Darkness game. 😜
We are all playing in a World of Darkness game on this glorious day.
Ravnos or Brujah, fang?
You’re adding policemen to the question. This is null.
Yes, a vampire could enter with a warrant, whether or not you invited him in. The state ultimately ‘owns’ your property; if it didn’t, then it couldn’t kick you out and seize it if you don’t pay property taxes. So therefore the state has the authority to give a vampire the right to enter your dwelling. (But what if the warrant was illegally issued, and so the vampire didn’t have actual permission to enter? Hmmmm.) Similarly, if you rented an apartment, your landlord could give a vampire permission to enter for a valid reason, e.g., the vampire worked maintenance, and you had a water leak that was damaging another apartment and needed immediate access.
But what if the warrant was illegally issued, and so the vampire didn’t have actual permission to enter? Hmmmm.
Vampires make better cops than real ones?!
So the State seizing land and demanding tax was really just a ploy to support their vampire masters. I knew it!
Ability to tax isn’t ownership
It’s not about ability to tax, it’s about ability to sieze. If the government didn’t own your land, then taking it without your permission would be theft. Since it isn’t theft if they take your land without your permission, it stands to reason that they own it. You don’t own the property, you own a piece of paper saying you’re allowed to live and build there.
If I own something I can put it to any lawful use without restriction or compensation. Neither taxation nor seizure for failure to pay taxes are anything like ownership.
Your mental picture fails to encompass the nuance which indeed isn’t particularly subtle.
“If I own something I can put it to any lawful use without restriction or compensation.”
This also applies to my rental property, because it would be unlawful for me to use it in a way that violates my lease. If someone else gets to tell you what you can and can’t do with your property, is it really your property? Whether that’s because you signed a contract saying “I won’t grow pot here,” or you live in a region where local authorities can simply declare that you aren’t allowed to grow pot there, I don’t see the meaningful distinction. Of course, the concept of ownership is an ill-defined social construct to begin with, so this kind of disagreement is irreconcilable. We simply have different ideas of what defines “ownership.”
As such, whether a vampire cop can enter your property using a warrant depends on whether the vampire understands it to be permission. QED
The entire planet understands what ownership means you are basically alone in misunderstanding
No, the “entire planet” has decided that states ultimately own your property–and you, since you don’t have absolute, individual bodily autonomy–and we use an incorrect shorthand in the way we verbally talk about property rights.
similar question.
do vampires need visas to enter a country?
can they cross borders freely?
if you surround the earth in a megastructure shaped like a house do all vampires on earth instantly die?
I think it’s the Dresden Files mythology? But I always liked the premise that it’s not the house that prevents them. It’s the magic of a home. They could walk into some house a squatter is living in for a few days with no issues, but a home where people truly live make it their own, have families, memories…that’s what gives the threshold power.
IIRC, even in that universe, a vampire can force it’s way in, but the threshold strips it of most of its power if not invited.
It would be such a Dresden type loophole to use that with the cliche of “home is wherever you are”, and have someone believe that strongly enough to make the other person a living vampire repellent.
Upon further consideration and two drinks, I deand Hollywood use this as the twist ending to give Blade the love interest they’re going to force in no matter what in the reboot.
Then in the sequel he sells out and gets a fancy new
BatcaveCrypt(?) funeded by some asshole who turns out to be the villain.And Blade’s conviction falters and it breaks her protection just long enough to get her tragically killed, setting up therevenge plot for the third movie.
God wqhy am I not a screenwriter. It’s not good, but it would sell.
Okay so then in Blade 3 its bsically Blade goign John Wick on some vampires until he finds out the vamp who killed his love is now part of a cult tying to smmon a demon.Then at the climax of the movie he has to choose betoween getting his revenge and stopping the summoning. and Blade is too driven by fury and he goes for revenge. So cliffhanger ending, the demon pops out of a portal. folloed by…
JOHN CONSTANTINE!
THAT’S RIGHT BIGHTCHES, BLADE 4 IS A BACKDOOR MARVEL/DC CROSSOVER!
I doubt that this would affect vampires at all. The rule is that they can’t enter your house without being invited, not that they have to move if you build a house around them.
wait
is property lines the same as a house?
can you sublet a room on your house and hide there?
can you surround a vampire with houses and he cannot escape?
Hey, I’m an amateur vampirologist. Feel free to tell me to go F myself if you disagree, but here are my thoughts.
In most media I’ve seen it’s not the property line, it’s specifically the house.
Subletting leads to an interesting conundrum that I’ll have to explore more but on its face I think it checks out. I also think it’s very silly and would love to see a work that explored this.
As I understand it, you’d have to build them pretty close together so it couldn’t escape, especially if it can turn into mist or fly, but theoretically I think that would work too if you could build fast enough.
i won’t tell you to fuck yourselves, I’ll do it myself …
next questions
a cave can be a house, can a vampire enter a uninhabited cave, but if next day someone moves in, will the vampire be unable to enter?
if a vampire inherits a house, no one formally invited him in, could he enter, as he is the legal owner and therefore only need his invitation?
do tents count as housing? what about this:
could you wear a tent like that and vampires would be unable to bite you?
Imagine a vampire getting frustrated with a realtor because this is the fourth time they’ve arrived at a house they’re interested in to do a walkthrough but the owners aren’t home and the realtor, as someone who doesn’t have ties to the memories created in that home, can’t invite him in.
This also has fascinating implications for house flippers. If you only live there while working on it, have you not amassed enough “home power” to keep vampires out? Does the power of your previous home follow you to a new address if it’s mostly the same decor?
We could then use vampires to determine who owns a house, if a house is abandoned for a while and there are squatters.
the squaters and legal owner invite vampires in, if the legal owner vampire cant, he looses the right to the house, if the squatter’s vamp cant get in, they get evicted.
So the legal owner loses the deed and the squatters evacuate.
Now the state gets an extra house.
could you wear a tent like that and vampires would be unable to bite you?
I feel like they can’t enter your house, as in get their entire body over the threshold. But there’s no magical forcefield over the doorway, so if you were standing within arms reach they could grab you. The tent thing is kind of a moot point though, as there’s nothing preventing them from attacking a domicile, so they could just tear it or even just poke you with a pointed stick.
does that mean that a vampire doesn’t need permission to enter a house if he rents a bulldozer?
I feel like this is both correct and opens a hole in most vampire films. Vamps should have been burning down homes to get at the people.
I don’t see why not. Otherwise they wouldn’t be able to bomb a structure either.
BRB writing a new movie about a vampire airbnb guest
But wouldn’t someone have to be living in the houses? I feel like empty buildings wouldn’t work.
At it’s core a house is an inhabited building. I think an occupied outhouse might work even, if you stuck a much of them together with the vampire in the middle. I’m envisioning like a 3x3 porta potty cube with a vampire in the center one.
But yeah I think there would have to at least be a person in each one
I think the spell is based around trust, the vampire has to convince you to trust them enough (either through charm or trickery) to invite them into your private living space. I think an outhouse would work since there’s a major expectation of privacy there.
I think a warrant would help the vampire convince people to trust them (a judge trusted them to execute their court order) but probably wouldn’t be enough on it’s own. Because it’s not about convincing someone else to say it’s ok to enter your home, they have to convince you to give them permission. But the vampire could say “I have been ordered by the court to search your house, may I come in?” They’d have to wait until you’ve read the warrant, maybe call your lawyer, and your lawyer would tell you that you have to let them in. Then you’d likely give permission to the vampire to enter your house because your lawyer told you to. Because lawyers are just another kind of blood sucker, aren’t they?
I 100% agree, the warrant alone wouldn’t be enough
I wonder how this would interact with, say, Manhattan’s Eruv—a wire used by some Jews to demark a private space.
This and lucky horseshoe or salt lines can repel
Jews Invent Eruv traditions to be safe from vampires.
Well by that logic, if you found a vampire’s lair /tomb while they slept, and then three a tent over it, wouldn’t that cause them to die?
I’m def of the opinion its all about entering a building (not necessarily about being in one).
Wait but if building a tent around it doesn’t kill them, which I agree with, it means that they would be allowed in if the domicile was formed around them without their knowing.
So by that logic, do Vampires get squatters rights?
If they get into a domicile not knowing there is an owner, then the owner arrives, are they ejected or are they allowed to stay? What if you build your house on top of the entrance to their tomb? Are they forced to ask permission to leave their tomb and thus enter your domicile?
I think that they wouldn’t be able to enter regardless of whether someone was home and they would know when they noticed they couldn’t do so.
If they get into a domicile not knowing there is an owner, then the owner arrives
I don’t think it’s based on knowledge, I think they would be prevented from entering regardless
Maybe they’re just paralyzed? I like the lore implications of that. Could be a run plot device to kick off a “why Dracula’s been gone for the last 200 years and suddenly popped up again”
I could just see a division of a larger vampire hunting organization calling themselves “The Campers” who’s whole mission is to find vampires and set up a tent over their resting places.
Depends on the fictional mythology. For instance the show Tuee Blood says it only applies to homes owned by a human, not businesses and such. That show has so many plot holes… But that idea they almost stick to. So I would say if the entire country was owned by 1 person and they lived there and had no businesses in it, sure.
No. The vampire is bound by a supernatural barrier not even the likes of Dracula can defy. Otherwise Dracula would be a judge to issue warrants for his fellow vampire officers.
I actually think you’ve just described the current political climate in the US.
Yes, you agreed to the Terms of Service (aka Social Contract). For people in the USA, that includes the 4th amendment, which explicitly allows law enforcement (living or semi-living) to enter with a warrant. Therefore you have granted permission to enter.
If they don’t have a warrant, or if they messed up the paperwork somehow, then they burst into flame.
Permission isn’t an invitation. They need to be invited in, not have permission to enter.
Can a vampire not break and enter? Would an invitation work if they were out of town and needed the vampire to cat sit for a weekend? Does you being in the house have an effect on the invitation or it deed based? How are renters handled? So many questions!
If you’re like me, you’re frustrated with vampire law. Here at Vampire Law, we help to keep your invitations clear and any misunderstandings cleared up.
Express, verbal consent if there is a person in the house. No one in the house = no need to grant permission.
I don’t know about that. So, if they ask, “can I come in?” and you say, “Yes.” then they still can’t come in?
But if you’re born in the USA, you didn’t agree to any ToS it was forced upon you at birth. Never chose to accept/agree to them, but obligated to follow them or face punishment.
A contract signed under duress is invalid.
While birth is certainly a state of duress for everyone involved, the term would have extreme difficulty in just about any court (glances at the current state of US judicial system uh. mostly.) — though I get where you’re coming from and don’t entirely disagree.
What a world it would be if those cosplaying porklets burst into flames simply by acting outside the Rules As Written. 🤩🥓🔥🤣 ACAB.
That would be pretty good.
If you’ve voted, you’ve essentially agreed to the ToS
I don’t think voting implies content. People continue to consent with some laws out of moral duty others because they like life outside of a cell.
Participated in democracy? Devoured by vampires, lmao
A fitting end
What if im an illegalist who doesnt pay taxes and reinforces my home’s exterior?
I am not a vampire lawyer, but vampire courts do tend to side with the vampire when these types of questions come up after the fact.
Courts are just cosplayers. Probably not even real vampires.
The protection is usually framed under the natural right to be safe at home, it has nothing to do with legal entitlements. i.e. someone considering a dwelling home makes it safe, not an arbitrary paper.
natural right to be safe at home
So nobody who lives under a state is protected?
You know, maybe Vimes had a point.
